nikon or canon for a first dslr?

[alex]

Hi guys,
Looking at getting a DSLR in the near future, and after some advice.
Have been using a high end(ish) point and shoot for a while, as well as a film slr in the past. Looking at a few different models, but in partiular the nikon D60.
Was fairly sold on this camera but have read a bit lately and am now not so sure. Not sure what the comparable canon would be (1000d?), but would like to hear from anyone who has used/sold any of these or other comparable ones. Would be used generally for rockclimbing trips and bushwalking, and so lightweight is preferable (hence the D60 interest). Any advice/opinions/experiences would be appreciated.
cheers
alex

[the_camera_poser]

Oh boy- here it comes...... LOL Where's Mickeymoo- I might need some back-up here.

In all honesty- it's 6 of one, half-dozen of the other. I'd avoid both the 1000D and the D60, as they are a bit too flimsy for my taste, especially for use outdoors.

I'm a Canon person- I'm not all that keen on Nikon, but there's a few cameras they make I'd gladly buy, but maybe not before I bought a Canon 5D Mk II. But at the end of the day, both systems make excellent cameras and lenses, and you'll be very happy with both.

Have a play with both in a store, see which one is the most intuitive to use, feels best in the hand, and is the best price, and go with that one.

Remember- the camera is really secondary- what you are atually buying is a hunk of plastic or metal that you mount an expensive lens on. Lenses are more important to your fimal product. So when you are brand shopping, make sure the brand makes the lens you'll want. Also, look at the prices of lenses. If you get serious at all, you'll want to upgrade to professional-class lenses ("L" lenses in Canon- I don't know what in Nikon), so be sure to check out the prices of them, especially in the focal length you want.

On the otherhand, if you aren't terribly serious, are just looking for a good photo but not the truly professional look, look into Pentax cameras. Their prosumer models have weathersealing, from memory, which is a pretty good thing in Tassie. Look at the K20D.

All of my very humble photosite, http://www.away-from-it-all.net is done with a Canon 30D.

You can compare cameras at http://www.dpreview.com

You can compare images from cameras at http://www.pbase.com.

Cheers!

[nickthetasmaniac]

I'm currently using a Pentax K20D and would highly recommend it. I bought it mainly because of weathersealing and durability and it's performed flawlessly on the two highland hiking trips it's been on so far.
I disagree though that this is a camera for people who aren't 'terribly serious'... While it may not have such an extensive feature list, the K20D image quality is up there with the best APS-C Canon/Nikon dSLR's, on par with the Canon 40/50D, better than the Sony a700 and not far behind the Nikon 300D, despite being much cheaper. It's also 14.6mp, which is handy if you want to print large landscapes.
Pentax also probably has the best 'made for digital' lens line-up (dpreview.com's comment), including some awesome light weight prime lenses.
The only issue i have with the pentax for hiking is weight (800g), although it's ballpark for that end of the market.
Here's some hiking photo's I've taken with the K20D and a DA* 16-50/2.8 lens:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8342731@N0 ... 264310465/

Keep in mind that if you buy a weathersealed dSLR body (pentax k20d, nikon d300, olympus E3), it'd won't be properly water-resistant unless you buy sealed lenses, which are generally quite costly. In Pentax's case, all DA* lenses are sealed.

If size is really important, Olympus' smaller models (E-420) are very compact and have a good reputation for build quality.

In all honesty- it's 6 of one, half-dozen of the other. I'd avoid both the 1000D and the D60, as they are a bit too flimsy for my taste, especially for use outdoors.

I strongly agree with this, I used to have a bottom-end Sony A100 and it really just wasn't up to bushwalking.

[tasadam]

Being a Nikon user, I suppose I have to throw my hat in the ring too.
http://www.tasadam.com/quality/ is from a Nikon D200. That's a 10.2Mp sensor, and a 105mm macro lens - the earlier one without Vibration Reduction (VR).
The 10.2Mp sensor seems to be in a lot of their cameras now. Indeed the D60 is 10.2Mp, so is the D80.
You can see some of my photos at http://www.tasadam.com - all from Nikon gear.

Like has been said, it doesn't make a lot of difference, the most important factor in your decision is likely to be which you feel most comfortable with.
I have never used a Canon DSLR. I have heard that some functions you need to do on the menu require a bit of a contortionist effort on your hands - requiring you to press 3 buttons at once. As I said, I haven't used one, only heard that somewhere.
The Nikon gear has been a favourite to a lot of people because of how comfortable they are in the hand.
Not trying to sway you - just trying to relay what I have heard. The right decision is important to you.
When you go somewhere to have a look at both, don't be swayed by the opinion of the salesman as to which is better - he may have his own preference, or he might be getting a bigger commission on one over the other.
In other words, turn the BS filter on and just listen to the facts.

What have you been reading to make you "not so sure"?

Entry level glass is fine to start with, but to get really great results you should look to better lenses. Problem is they cost a LOT and are heavier - glass is heavy - so best to stick with the kit lenses until you feel you will really get something out of that much money and weight - whether you can afford it as a hobby, or whether you want to start earning a buck from it.
Shopbot is a site I use to get prices on things - the D60 body and the D80 are listed. And the D60 kit.
Seems the D90 replaces the D80, available with a kit lens here.
If you wanted to get REALLY serious, look at this (Sit down before looking at the price). No lens included.
I digress.
Back on track, if I were to buy a new DSLR today I would probably buy the D300. A robust body, perhaps a bit heavier than the plastic counterparts (D80, D90, D60 etc) but worth it for the ruggedness.
If I wanted to go full frame, the D700.
Nothing wrong with the D200 I use either but that the D300 is better and the D200 still isn't cheap.

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[Mickeymoo]

Oh boy- here it comes...... LOL Where's Mickeymoo- I might need some back-up here.

Lol, unfortunantly I don't really keep up with changing models etc (apart from the Canon 5D Mark II ) and different brands etc, however I would wholeheartedly agree with the above comments that it is a lens system you are buying into, the camera body will most likely be upgraded, where as good quality lenses will last a very long time if looked after and will rarely need to be replaced or upgraded. The feel of the camrea to you is important as it should feel comfortable to hold and to use all the buttons and features, you will only know this by going and trying a few in the shop.

In the end though most of the major brands of DSLRs will produce reasonable results and it comes down to which camrea you like, the cost of the camera, the lenses and the acessories.

Cheers,

Michael.

[nickthetasmaniac]

It's been said, but I can't stress strongly enough going into a camera store and actually holding all the bodies in your price range.
I was 99% set on a Nikon D300 (excellent camera) before I actually held it. While many praise Nikon ergonomics, it simply didn't fit my hand, while the Pentax K20 and Olympus E-3 felt wonderful. This is a totally individual thing and no review can tell you if it's going to feel 'right' or not, just try it for yourself

Now the Pentax. I love my old Pentax ME super and its lenses as a film camera and would have swapped straight to a digital one but Pentax stuffed their mount. Sure the lenses will mount but you lose automatic aperture and more importantly the ability to have the lens fully open for focusing and then closing down to the selected aperture when taking the photograph. I was so annoyed given that the last of the film cameras could use any Pentax lens in the K mount series with all the features but then "stuffed" it with the digital mounts. Why? As best I can tell Pentax wanted users to buy new lenses rather than have access to a vast range of older film camera lenses.

I use old Pentax and Takumar lenses (both M42 with adapter and K-mount) on my K20D and while stepping down is a pain, the results more than make up for it.
Do Canon/Nikon/Olympus have full backward lens capability?

[Tony]

Hi nickthetasmaniac,

It's been said, but I can't stress strongly enough going into a camera store and actually holding all the bodies in your price range.
I was 99% set on a Nikon D300 (excellent camera) before I actually held it. While many praise Nikon ergonomics, it simply didn't fit my hand, while the Pentax K20 and Olympus E-3 felt wonderful. This is a totally individual thing and no review can tell you if it's going to feel 'right' or not, just try it for yourself

I have 4 Nikon D300's at my work in a research lab they get a lot of use, I can highly recommend them. they are very high quality and very versatile.

I also have some Nikon D100's, some old Nikon F2's, F3's a Nikon 301 and lots of Canon point and shoots. The Nikon F3's in their day where the standard in 35 mm film photography and the D300 seem to be a suitable replacement. I would like a full frame camera someday.

Tony

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[the_camera_poser]

I disagree though that this is a camera for people who aren't 'terribly serious'...

Yes- this was a silly thing to say. I must retract! It's not like Pentax is exactly a new and unexperienced camera maker.

[alex]

Thanks for all the replies!
sounds like the best thing to do is go into a camera shop to try them all.
will let you know what i end up with.
cheers
alex

[the_camera_poser]

That'd be the way to go. You'll be happy regardless. What good camera shops are there in Hobart?

[nickthetasmaniac]

I do not support companies that drop backward compatibility for some warped marketing reasoning.

Full backward lens compatibility
PENTAX has manufactured over 25 million lenses in the last six decades; all DSLR bodies offer backward compatibility with every one.* Whichever lens is used, whether the most recent lenses or a classic screwmount, it will faithfully capture the image desired.
*With adapter for screwmount and 645/67 lenses. (from pentaximaging.com)

Pentax claims that it does support full backward lens compatibility, so i'm not sure what warped marketing reasoning you're talking about?

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[tasadam]

From the top of my head, Nikon lenses -
AF - has the motor in the camera body that does the focussing
AFS - has a built in "silent'wave" motor in the lens, focusing is silent, and VERY fast.
Mounts are the same from memory, no compatibility issues. There is a Nikon site somewhere that shows you what lenses don't work on what cameras. Some of the older lenses aren't compatible, but mostly all lenses will work at least in manual mode.

And the pro lenses in Nikon usually have a gold band around them, also the filter size is 77mm standard across the range, generally speaking. And they're expensive like pro glass from any manufacturer.

Canera shops in Hobart? I dunno which is best but there is the camera house on the corner of Murray and Collins, also in the mall approaching Liverpool St, on the left.
And another across the other side of Liverpool on the corner of Criterion I think.
But if you PM me before you buy I will check with my "secret source" for pricing.

[alex]

thanks for all the insight guys.
Went into a shop and had a poke around and played with most of them. Am now pretty much settled on the d60 with a single lens VR kit.
While supporting local shops and the economy is all well and good, has anyone bought a camera off ebay?? available for $800 posted with 1 year warranty (may be hard to enforce?) from a seller in hong kong. they claim to have local agents and support but am sceptical. but the $200 price difference is tempting.
alex

[stoogest]

I didn't go through ebay for my Nikon D40, but I did go through ShoppingSquare who are grey market retailers. The only reason I went grey market was purely based on price (I saved about $300) and ShoppingSquare had pretty good customer reviews (see whirlpool forums). With most (all?) grey market cameras you will need to send the camera back to the retailer if you have a warranty claim. To me this was the biggest risk, but I figured I'd have to be pretty unlucky to have something go wrong.

I do feel a little bad for not supporting the locals, but for $300 I just couldn't justify it.

Hope this helps...

Andrew.

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[alex]

Hi guys,
Ended up buying locally. Peace of mind and over the counter service won me over and ended up with a d60 18-55VR. While mail order/ebay were significantly cheaper i couldnt find any places that were perfect, ie some had no australian warranty, some had warranties less the freight, others didnt come with a battery (??). so $999 locally.
Thanks for all the advice, looking forward to getting out to try it!
alex

[tasadam]

Congratulations!
Welcome to Club Nikon. I for one am sure you will enjoy it.
Looking forward to seeing some results in the gallery and competitions real soon!

[stoogest]

bugger...not more competition for the monthly comp...??!!



congrats! your wallet will never be the same again!

[the_camera_poser]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not another noink user. Gosh darn, I knew I should have bad mouthed noink.......

[corvus]

Whoops a Grand for a camera my first car cost less than than that
Congratulations for purchasing the correct tool of your choice for the job lets hope we get to see the fantastic outcome :
c