Basic ABC watch suggestions

For all high tech electronic equipment including GPS, PLB, chargers, phones, computers, software. Discussion of simple electrical devices such as torches, belongs in the main 'Equipment' forum.

Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Mon 27 May, 2019 11:42 am

Hi,

Wondering if anyone owns a Suunto Core or Garmin Instinct?

Not fussed on GPS but want a reliable no fuss watch with ABC.

The Suunto ticks the boxes but I have concerns about the readability of the screen.

The Garmin seems to have a very legible screen and seems solid. Probably too many features (GPS, hr monitor) but I'm guessing they can be switched off.

Also interested in the Casio pgr 600/650 but nowhere seems to stock them in an actual shop and I like to try stuff on before I buy it.

Suggestions or recommendations? Budget is tops $400.

Thanks,

Pete
Last edited by Petew on Mon 27 May, 2019 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch

Postby Mark F » Mon 27 May, 2019 1:16 pm

I have a Suunto Vector watch which predates the Core model. It is now 16 years old and still works well and I use it as my daily wear watch. In that time I have replaced the strap once and change the battery once a year. It has a smaller face than the Core and lacks a couple of minor features (eg 5m vs 2m altitude sensitivity) but has what you are looking for. I have at times considered upgrading to the Core but the minor benefits never seemed worthwhile. I did flirt with the idea of gps watches but battery life, lack of maps etc ensured they never made it onto my shopping list. For gps I now use my phone because of the screen size for maps but still have a Garmin Etrex 30 in the cupboard if I want tracking and more serious gps type usage.

While this doesn't directly answer your question I have found the Suuntos very good.
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
User avatar
Mark F
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 2106
Joined: Mon 19 Sep, 2011 8:14 pm
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Neo » Mon 27 May, 2019 8:10 pm

Hi Petew
What is ABC in relation to a watch?
Neo
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: Wed 31 Aug, 2016 4:53 pm
Location: Port Macquarie NSW
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Mon 27 May, 2019 8:25 pm

Altimeter, barometer, compass.
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby bernieq » Mon 27 May, 2019 11:13 pm

I've had a Casio Pro Trek PRG-110 for 5+ years and am very happy with it. Accurate, comfortable, good UI. The solar charging hss been very effective.

It was bought from the net sight unseen but after lots of research.

We are responsible for the health of the planet - not it for ours
User avatar
bernieq
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 520
Joined: Tue 17 Jan, 2012 3:43 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby keithy » Tue 28 May, 2019 11:03 am

Peter

I might be able to impart some first hand experiences with these. These are mainly off the top of my head.

Suunto Cores
I have owned three Suunto Cores (the Sahara Yellow, the Black/Yellow, and the All Black). All three were the negative display options - this means that the screen's background is black and the digits are "white".

I sold the Yellow/Black version early on as the bezel made the watch feel larger on the wrist. And the moving bezel had limited use IMHO.

The Sahara yellow was my favourite - but when I got it, it went through batteries every 4 months or so, even without activating the battery draining functions like the backlight, or the compass. The battery life is meant to be 12 months or so. Suunto Australia's warranty (through Amer Sports Australi) was fantastic. They offered to replace the watch, however when they replied that they no longer stocked the Sahara Yellow version, they provided an All Black. The All Black version also has the moving bezel.

While the negative display screens look very cool, I found that in certain lighting conditions, the display could be difficult to read. The backlight works well in pitch black conditions, but at low light conditions can still make it a stretch to see the display with my ageing eyes - this is especially noticeable when you compare the EL backlights to that of my Casio Protreks or the Garmin Instinct.

The main positives I liked with the Suunto Cores was
  • The large digital font readout
  • the graphical display for the elevation/barometer. The barometer graph shows 24 hours data, recoded every 30 minutes. The log retains the last 7 days graph.
  • The depth meter, although I never used it for more than a snorkle
  • the automatic profile (eg switching from altimeter to barometer if device has not moved in altitude at a set period of time)
The negatives for the Suunto Core for me
  • having to manually change the time when traveling (for Casio Protreks you can change the timezone and it changes the time),
  • no ability to quickly move from Alti/Compass/Baro functions = you have to press the Menu Button, then Alti-Baro, then Profile, then Altimeter or Barometer. To get to the Compass mode, you have to press the Menu button through to Alti-Baro, then to Compass. On the Casio Protreks you can press a single button to go to Alti or Baro or Compass.
  • Inabilty on the main time screen to display the day/date and seconds (you can view day/date or seconds, and the seconds display disappears in a set time to save battery.)
  • Calibrating the compass there was no indication about doing it correctly or the duration. The Protreks tell you when to orientate the watch while doing the compass recalibration
I have sold on all my Suunto Cores now.

Casio Protrek
My first digital Protrek using the newer V3 sensors was the PRG270 I picked up back in 2013/14. I have now got a few other Protreks now.

I elected for a positive display model (white background, black digits). Coming from the Suunto Core, the main time display is smaller, but still larger than other Casios like G-Shocks.

The Protreks like mine have a solar charger built in to the face, and an internal battery. The charge on mine have lasted over 12 months without direct sunlight and still displaying the "H" for High battery power.

I prefered the Protreks over the Suunto Cores for these reasons:
  • solar charging / long battery life between solar exposure
  • Ease of changing time while traveling - just changing the timezone changed the watch time. On the Suunto Core, you had to manually adjust the time while traveling.
  • Sunrise/Sunset times could be set using map coordinates, as well as a list of preset cities. On the Suunto Core, you were limited to a preset list of cities.

The negatives to the Protrek
  • The alti/baro graph isn't as nice as the Suunto Core. And in the event of sudden drop or increases in pressure, there are times when the "dot" for that record is out of the scale, and is not displayed (being outside the top or the bottom of the available chart), leaving a gap in the graph, which is annoying.
  • The Protrek graph displays dots showing barometric pressure over 42 hours taken every 2 hours (21 dots). The Suunto Core has a log of 7 days, the Protrek does not.
  • The barometer only records the ambient pressure - the Suunto core only records sea level pressure.
  • The Suunto Core has a storm alarm, and a dive meter - both of which are not on the Protrek.
Altimeter logs are about equal - 14 trek logs on the Casio, and 10 logs on the Suunto.

Here are some pics of my PRG270 vs the Suunto Core Sahara Yellow.

PRG270 Core Baro Comp 2 (Medium).jpg
Comparing the PRG270 & Suunto Core baro graphs

This is a shot of the PRG270 (left) vs the Suunto Core showing the barometer graphs. The PRG270 displays 42 hours recording every 2 hours, while the Suunto Core displays last 24 hours every 30 minutes. The Suunto core display is nicer, and the log records the past 7 days.

PRG-270-1JF_7 (Medium).jpg
Backlight EL illumination on Protrek

This is the backlight on the Protrek. I can't find pics of my Suunto's backlights but they pale in comparison.

Suunto Core Casio PRG270 Front (Medium).jpg
trying to show angles of view for Protrek/Core

Suunto Core Casio Prg270 Side (Medium).jpg
trying to show angles of view for Protrek/Core again

A couple of pics showing the display in sunlight of both. The initial protreks like my PRG270 can be difficult to read at low angles due to the LCD, but newer versions have STN (Super-twisted nematic) LCD displays that are superior. I cannot find my pics comparing the illumination of both, but the Suunto Cores were inferior to the backlight of the Casio Protreks.

PRG300 Great Ocean Road (Medium).JPG
Protrek PRG300

One of my other Casio Protreks, the PRG300, has a slightly larger main digital font, and a slightly smaller case than the PRG270. Taken on the Great Ocean Road at the GOW Johanna Beach campsite.

Protrek PRG600/650 - the Analogue/digital Protreks
I love the look of these dual display Analogue/digital PRG600s, and I got the green nylon strapped PRG600YB-3 when it came out.

But one of the issues I had was with ABC watches is that I tend to prefer all digital readouts. I find that using the analog hands for things like the compass and the small digital display meant that it was slower and more fiddly for me to get the info I wanted. The analog hands can partially obscure the digital readout at certain times, and the illumination LED is not as nice as the backlit EL of the full digital versions.

So while the analogue face looks nicer to me than the all digital ABC watches, I found that it's utility was inferior in comparison with the full digital ABCs, and I on-sold that one too. As a watch alone though, despite it sitting larger than the all digital PRG300 on the wrist, I thought it was a good looking watch, and made it hard to sell it on.

On to the Garmin Instinct
This is quite a different beast as the other two. It looks more like a Casio G-Shock but with large Suunto core looking font display. Obviously the GPS is the biggest difference. I like this watch, but find that if using it on long treks, I would want to use the GPS, and then it becomes another thing I have to charge. Use of the GPS for logging will see the battery life last as long as handheld GPS units (around advertised 16 hours or 40 hours in garmin's ultratrac mode - ultratrac mode incidentally I have found of limited use if trying to maintain a tracklog). If you set the Garmin Instinct in watch mode, you can keep it going for almost 2 weeks.

I have tried the Fenix 3 for six months, and have only given the Instinct a quick go, and have picked up a Foretrex 601 to see if I need a wrist based GPS. For me so far though, I find that for Navigation/track logging capabilities, I defer back to my handheld Garmins or smartphones more so I'm not sure if a wrist based GPS watch is one for me yet.
User avatar
keithy
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue 28 Oct, 2014 5:31 pm
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby keithy » Tue 28 May, 2019 11:31 am

Costwise, the cheapest were the all digital Casio Protreks.

Eg. I got the PRG270 for about $120 from Amazon US but that was when the AUD was stronger in 2013.
The PRG300 I got for around $170
The Suunto Cores were around $250-$300
The PRG600 was about $380
The Garmin Instinct was around $330

Here are some more pics of the PRG300 in 2015 on my international walks.
PRG300 Mt Ngauruhoe NZ.JPG

PRG300 Bukk Mountain Hungary.JPG
User avatar
keithy
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue 28 Oct, 2014 5:31 pm
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby bernieq » Tue 28 May, 2019 12:24 pm

Very comprehensive reply, keithy - above and beyond !

Just one observation : you list as a negative for the Pro Trek :
keithy wrote:The barometer only records the ambient pressure - the Suunto core only records sea level pressure

Is that correct?
The Suunto Core has a 'Barometer' profile (used when altitude is not changing) and 'Altimeter' profile (used when altitude is changing). Functionally, this is identical to the Pro Trek.

For both, the sensor is measuring ambient air pressure (AAP). The barometer display show the recorded AAP over time and the altimeter calculates the altitude based on a reference point. The reference point can be sea level (AAP = 1013.25 hPa) or calibrated to any known elevation (that's how both watches work).

If you don't calibrate the altitude, altitude is calculated from the difference between current AAP and sea level.
If you do calibrate the altimeter, the altitude calculations will be based on changes in AAP from that point. (AAP decreases by approx 12hPa per 100m elevation).

We are responsible for the health of the planet - not it for ours
User avatar
bernieq
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 520
Joined: Tue 17 Jan, 2012 3:43 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Tue 28 May, 2019 1:11 pm

Wow! Thanks for the detailed and very helpful response.

I too have old eyes and a non operable detached retina so visibility is key.

I like the look of the instinct because the info is highly visible. I'm guessing I can turn the GPS off and just use as an ABC watch. I use my phone and maps for navigation.

Do you think the instinct is a good one to go for considering eyesight issues?

Cheers,

Pete
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby keithy » Tue 28 May, 2019 1:13 pm

bernieq wrote:Is that correct?
The Suunto Core has a 'Barometer' profile (used when altitude is not changing) and 'Altimeter' profile (used when altitude is changing). Functionally, this is identical to the Pro Trek.

For both, the sensor is measuring ambient air pressure (AAP).


Bernie - my statement is correct. The Suunto Core only reports the Sea Level adjusted air pressure (barometric pressure) as opposed to the Protreks which only report ambient air pressure. In the Suunto, the internal pressure sensor detects the ambient air pressure, and using reference values, calculates the sea level adjusted air pressure. It only displays this sea level adjusted air pressure.

Back when I first got my Suunto Core, there was been various discussion on various watch forums regarding this, promoting this as a reason the Suunto Core was superior than the Protreks.

I have believed for a while that there should be the capacity to report and display both in a wrist watch - Since late 2015 I picked up one that can report both the sea level adjusted air pressure as well as the ambient air pressure on the same screen, however, only logs the ambient air pressure for the past 7 days.

My Garmin handhelds (the Oregon 600 and the eTrex 30 )if I set in my own created Baro profile, and leave it recording the air pressure even when switched off, will also display the sea level adjusted air pressure and the ambient air pressure.

Back in the days of my Palm Pilot and my trusty Tungsten T3, I had written my own small spreadsheet based calcuator convertor using the formula P0 = (P*(1-(0.0065*h)/(T+0.0065*h+273.15))^-5.257 where P = ambient pressure (hPa), h = elevation (m), T = temperature (C). I have updated this to a spreadsheet for my phones these days.

For elevation/expected air pressure, I have made up a small spreadsheet table using the formula p = 101325 (1 - 2.25577 10^-5 * h)^5.25588 where
101325 = normal temperature and pressure at sea level (Pa), p = air pressure (Pa) h = altitude above sea level (m)

I keep the table printed out small in my map case, and have it as both a PDF and on spreadsheet version on my phone as well.

Here is a pic of my Casio Protrek PRG300 and the ABC watch mentioned above that reports both ambient and sea level adjusted pressure on the same page, and my Garmin Oregon 600 at the calibrate elevation screeen.

ABC Watch calibration.jpg
ABC Watch calibration.jpg (80.57 KiB) Viewed 3882 times

The PRG300 on the left is showing a negative elevation, but I am not underground nor below sea level. It is showing the negative elevation as the pressure dropped the night before the picture was taken, and the watch was not calibrated after the air pressure change.

You can see the centre ABC watch displays both the ambient and the sea level air pressure. I am only at an elevation of 40m, so there is not much discrepancy between the two. In the mountains is where you will see a greater difference between the two.

On the Suunto's Automatic profile, I found that while in theory a handy addition - theoretically it would prevent elevation drift by locking the elevation if it did not detect a significant shift in elevation in a set period of time. However in actual use, I still found it drifted overnight while I was sleeping when the ambient air pressure changed.

For all my ABC watches, using alti functions required regular calibration for accuracy. For me, the in-field calibrations are usually done against contour lines on maps or elevation markers on trails.
User avatar
keithy
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue 28 Oct, 2014 5:31 pm
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby keithy » Tue 28 May, 2019 1:29 pm

Petew wrote:I like the look of the instinct because the info is highly visible. I'm guessing I can turn the GPS off and just use as an ABC watch. I use my phone and maps for navigation.

Do you think the instinct is a good one to go for considering eyesight issues?

The Instinct is indeed quite a nice display, with great contrast and is easily viewed from a variety of angles. The barometric/altitude graphs are nicer than both the Suunto Core or the Casio Protreks. Overall it is a nice watch with lots of features (optical hrm, gps, phone connectivity, and customisable watch faces).

For the Instinct's baro/alti modes they also have an auto option similar to the Suunto Core, or an Altimeter only option or a Barometer only option. And you can set a storm alert similar to the Suunto Core.

I only used it for a week, so I can't recall if it displayed both the ambient or sea level pressure. The baro display was in the small "eye" while the graph took up the rest of the screeen.

I reckon it's a great watch for the size and the price, and especially if you can live with it the battery life of around about 2 weeks or less in watch mode (less again if you regularly use the ABC functions), and significantly less if you use the GPS functions.
User avatar
keithy
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue 28 Oct, 2014 5:31 pm
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Tue 28 May, 2019 1:35 pm

Thanks Keithy,

Looks like the instinct is the way to go. GPS will only be used rarely, probably just for calibrating the altimeter. If it can manage 8 or9 days on a charge without GPS it should be the goods. I do carry a powerbanks and I'm guessing the battery is pretty small? I couldn't find anywhere how many mAh it is

Cheers,

Pete
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby keithy » Tue 28 May, 2019 1:51 pm

Pete - the battery is tiny, you might not even notice the amount it takes from a decent sized powerbank, and it didn't take that long to fully charge. You just need to carry the proprietary cable.

The one thing I liked compared with earlier Garmin GPS watches is that the cable doesn't need a bulky cradle to plug to the watch. It just plugs in to the underside of the watch - meaning you can't charge it while wearing it.

Petew wrote:GPS will only be used rarely, probably just for calibrating the altimeter.


The issue of GPS elevations vs barometric pressure derived elevations is a whole other kettle of fish. It might be surprising to some, but GPS derived elevations can be well off, due to the models and assumptions used, and the fact that GPS while great for horizontal accuracy, has lesser vertical accuracy. I would calibrate elevations off maps if you have them, or physical markers if available.
User avatar
keithy
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue 28 Oct, 2014 5:31 pm
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Tue 28 May, 2019 2:35 pm

Cool, noted. Thanks again for all your very useful information.
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby ssorc » Tue 28 May, 2019 4:06 pm

Petew wrote:Thanks Keithy,

Looks like the instinct is the way to go. GPS will only be used rarely, probably just for calibrating the altimeter. If it can manage 8 or9 days on a charge without GPS it should be the goods. I do carry a powerbanks and I'm guessing the battery is pretty small? I couldn't find anywhere how many mAh it is

Cheers,

Pete


I don't know the battery capacity for the Instinct and Garmin don't detail it in their specifications, but the Garmin Fenix 3 (which I have and is a similar size) has a 300 mAh battery:

https://www.batteryship.com/htmlos/html ... el=Fenix+3

I charge it from a small powerbank on multi-day trips with no problems.
ssorc
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon 15 Apr, 2019 4:49 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Tue 28 May, 2019 4:41 pm

Wow, that's tiny! Should get a bit of life out of it with a 20000mah power bank then....:)
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby RonK » Tue 28 May, 2019 6:21 pm

I have a Protrek somewhere, bought it for Nepal trekking. I was happy enough with the way it worked, but have got to say it’s the most uncomfortable watch I have ever worn.
User avatar
RonK
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 843
Joined: Mon 31 Dec, 2012 10:33 am
Region: Queensland
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby bernieq » Tue 28 May, 2019 6:46 pm

I bow to your superior knowledge, keithy, as I've not owned a Suunto - and am now very unlikely to as I think reporting only sea level air pressure is just crazy.

GPS-obtained altitude is, as you say, not very accurate. +- 50m. If you happen to have 3 or 4 satelites near the horizon and one directly above, accuracy can be +- 10m. Garmin GPSs (all? certainly some) report 3 altitudes; GPS, barometric and one derived from an algorithm that, over a few hours, combines both. Some years ago I asked Garmin what the algorithm was but no luck.

We are responsible for the health of the planet - not it for ours
User avatar
bernieq
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 520
Joined: Tue 17 Jan, 2012 3:43 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Sun 02 Jun, 2019 8:26 pm

Keithy,

Out of interest, why did you only have the Garmin instinct for a week? Was it a loaner or you didn't like it? Or, too many watches?
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby keithy » Mon 03 Jun, 2019 1:32 am

Petew wrote:Out of interest, why did you only have the Garmin instinct for a week?


Peter - I have the habit of getting GPS stuff for other people who don't buy alot over the internet, especially if I see a good deal. I got it for someone who was taking it overseas and he wanted to know how well the GPS worked in comparison with my handheld Garmins.

I was thinking of getting one for myself, but as I mentioned earlier, I am not sure a GPS watch is one for me yet. I have tried three different ones so far, and for bushwalking and my travels, I tend to prefer an ABC watch I don't have to charge as frequently.

I have sent you a message with a good deal on it at the moment.
User avatar
keithy
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue 28 Oct, 2014 5:31 pm
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby keithy » Mon 03 Jun, 2019 2:00 am

bernieq wrote:GPS-obtained altitude is, as you say, not very accurate. +- 50m.


The error can actually be a bit higher than that. Garmin used to state on their support page (I can't find it at the moment, as my previous links have been broken), that the GPS satellite heights can be off from map elevations by +/-400 feet (122m), however with units with a barometric altimeter, and importantly proper calibration, the accuracy is down to 10 feet.

Firstly, the GPS elevations are based on reference ellipsoid map of sea level (commonly the WGS-84), which is a model of sea level, not the actual sea level at a given location. Maps/geometric height are based on a vertical datum tied to the geoid. The difference can cause errors of between -100m to +70m depending on where you are in the world.

Then you have the regular GPS satellite issues. For a good GPS height (3D fix), you need at least one satellite overhead, and the other three or more satellites at the horizon to triangulate the GPS location. The shape of the globe means that for most accurate horizontal fix the satellites are on the horizon. And the higher in elevation you are (the closer to the satellites), the greater the potential inaccuracy.

Getting back to the issues of displaying Mean Sea Level Adjusted Pressures (MSLP) vs Ambient Atmospheric pressures in ABC watches, I sort of understand why Suunto uses the mean sea level pressure, but still contend that it would be easy to display both, or at least have the option to display both.

Here are some examples with the watch that I have that displays both - the top number is the MSLP and the bottom number is the ambient pressure. In both cases, I have not properly calibrated the elevation before taking the picture.

I took both these late last year having taken this watch away for 3 months to see how it performs. With the Sea level adjusted pressure and the ambient pressure and temperature (which is the reason the ABCs have a thermometer), you can calculate the elevation using the formula I mentioned above, or use the online calculator here https://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224585971

North Edge Montenegro Kotor (Medium).JPG
Kotor Montenegro

In this first example, I am above the Church of the Lady of Remedy in Kotor Montenegro. Using the temperature of 10C, and inputting the MSLP (top) and the ambient pressure (bottom), you get an elevation of 175m. it is within cooee of my actual elevation of 160m. The difference being my lack of calibration before setting off in the morning. I calibrated my Garmin Oregon 600 instead.
North Edge Montenegro Black Lake (Medium).jpg
Black Lake Montenegro

In this second example, I am at an elevation of about 1400m. If you refer to my evelation/airpressure chart, you will see that 855.7 hPa is the expected pressure for about 1400m. Again, since I didn't calibrate the altimeter against a known elevation before setting off, the top MSLP is slightly incorrect. If I used the figures reported, I would get a calculated elevation of about 1300m, about 100m lower than I actually am. Again, if I had calibrated properly before setting off on this morning, the MSLP displayed should be around 1010 hPa.

My preference for displaying both is so I can double check myself against my known chart. At the lake in the second photo for example, the air pressure pretty much matched the expected pressure for the elevation. I know the elevation as it was marked on my maps. If for example, I saw that the pressure was 830-840hPa while I was at at the lake, it could mean that the pressure drop wasn't due to increase in elevation, but incoming changes in the weather.
User avatar
keithy
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue 28 Oct, 2014 5:31 pm
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Mon 03 Jun, 2019 8:35 am

Keithy,

Thanks for the info, it's a good deal. I might have to hold off as I just got a monster electricity bill :(
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Fri 07 Jun, 2019 6:46 am

Just ordered a instinct.

Keithy, do you have any experience/feedback of the Garmin Tempe external sensor?

Trying to find out if it logs a temperature range (highs and lows) or if it's down to the device it's paired with.
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby ssorc » Fri 07 Jun, 2019 6:34 pm

Trying to find out if it logs a temperature range (highs and lows) or if it's down to the device it's paired with.


I have the Tempe paired to a Garmin Fenix 3.

It logs the minimum and maximum temperature values in the last 24 hours. It also reports the current temperature. If you want to log temperature data, then you have to do that via the device. With the Fenix, it embeds the temperature data in the current activity's FIT file.

The Tempe is definitely better than the Fenix's inbuilt temperature sensor which is next to your wrist so is affected by body temperature, but being housed in black plastic, you do have to be careful about having it exposed to direct sunlight. The sensor housing is remarkably robust -- I wear it attached to my shoe laces when trail running and it has survived years of running.
ssorc
Nothofagus cunninghamii
Nothofagus cunninghamii
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon 15 Apr, 2019 4:49 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby keithy » Fri 07 Jun, 2019 9:26 pm

Petew wrote:Just ordered a instinct.

Keithy, do you have any experience/feedback of the Garmin Tempe external sensor?


Congrats. Hope you like the watch - and managed to get it on that deal.

The Tempe is a nice sensor. Clipping it away from the body, and away from direct sunlight, it gives more accurate temperature readings than from an ABC watch worn on the wrist.

When I hike, I usually have my ABC watches clipped on the chest sternum strap so the temp readings are more accurate - however when exposed to direct sunlight on hot days even this doesn't give accurate readings as the temperature spikes from the direct sun.

On the Tempe I wasn't a big fan of the clip system though. But this might just be me. It never fell off when attached to a strap or a paracord loop, but it just never felt the most secure to me.

I never paired it with a GPS watch, only with my eTrex and my Oregon units. I liked that the battery lasted ages - at least 9 months. It used the same battery as the Suunto Core, and my ANT+ heart rate monitors (CR2032), so I always have spares. The issue I took with it was on my Garmin handheld units I couldn't display the temperature graph on my handheld units while I was out walking. I could only see that on a PC after I copied the stored tracklog file to the PC Basecamp application.

But on the handheld units I could at least view the current temperature, and the 24 hr min/max temperatures. As ssorc says, on the Instinct you can also display this if you enable the applicable data fields.

I had a smartphone that could connect ANT+ devices, and I successfully paired my Tempe sensor and my ANT+ HRM monitor to it, but it was only after that phone died that the software I was using (Oruxmaps) incorporated external sensor data to record. Both my later smartphone replacements lack ANT+ connectivity, so mine hasn't been used for a while.
User avatar
keithy
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue 28 Oct, 2014 5:31 pm
Region: Other Country
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Mark F » Sat 08 Jun, 2019 10:21 am

Agree with Keithy, the Tempe sensor works well - I use mine mainly for the overnight minimum with it clipped to the main guy above the door. While it is designed to mate with Garmin gps units you can also interrogate it from a phone with the right app and can see max, min and current temperature.
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
User avatar
Mark F
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 2106
Joined: Mon 19 Sep, 2011 8:14 pm
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Bubbalouie » Sat 08 Jun, 2019 11:01 am

Mark F wrote:Agree with Keithy, the Tempe sensor works well - I use mine mainly for the overnight minimum with it clipped to the main guy above the door. While it is designed to mate with Garmin gps units you can also interrogate it from a phone with the right app and can see max, min and current temperature.
In the past I've had the same usage pattern, mostly I wanted the overnight low to be able to better understand the "real" rating of my sleeping gear.

I never had much luck using it in the day though, wherever I put it on my pack it'd read a high due to getting sun or being close to my body.

Have you found a practical way of using it during the day?


Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Bubbalouie
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 395
Joined: Tue 03 Sep, 2013 11:22 pm
Region: South Australia
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Sat 08 Jun, 2019 12:10 pm

I wonder why they didn't make it white.
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Mark F » Sat 08 Jun, 2019 3:39 pm

I found it was next to impossible to get any meaningful readings while on the go. I dislike walking in the heat so I use the Tempe at lunchtime placing it in a shaded spot where I am eating lunch. If it is over 30 when contemplating continuing I opt for a siesta, often for a couple of hours, before heading off.
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
User avatar
Mark F
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 2106
Joined: Mon 19 Sep, 2011 8:14 pm
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Basic ABC watch suggestions

Postby Petew » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 8:15 am

Got the instinct a few days ago.

Took a little time to get my head around all the various menu/buttons/features etc.

This thing is fantastic!

Ticks the boxes for me, I was after basic ABC functionality with a easily readable screen. Perfect.

It's great that there is the option to disable battery munching stuff I don't want to use.

Very glad I bought this watch.
Petew
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed 05 Oct, 2016 12:07 pm
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Next

Return to Techno-Babble

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests