sleep system

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sleep system

Postby sasfish » Wed 22 May, 2019 12:44 pm

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Thought I would share my new sleep system.
I am curious what others are using. Ok so I have gotten rid of my mummy bag and bought a Quilt; A minus 5 Undercling mike Quilt to be exact. It's a long and wide version. I have paired the quilt with a Thermarest z pad and a Sea to Summit Ultralite comfort pad. Inside on colder nights, I'm rolling the Thermarest reactor ex liner. Really cold nights I am putting a double sol bivy over and around the lot. Quilt pops in at 720 grams pack weight. What's your system
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Re: sleep system

Postby Rosscodj » Wed 22 May, 2019 1:59 pm

I don't have a photo, but mine is:

Exped Synmat UL7s
Sea to Summit Aeros Pillow
Mike Undercling +4 quilt (regular regular)

If it gets colder:
Mike Undercling -8 quilt (regular regular)
OMM Duomat - Came with my pack as the back pad. I can put it at the end of, or even under, my sleeping pad for a bit more insulation.
+ thermals, beanie and down jacket if needed.
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Re: sleep system

Postby sasfish » Wed 22 May, 2019 2:57 pm

Thanks for that. Quilts are great never going back. However, if it was 4 season really cold bag maybe the go.
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Re: sleep system

Postby Al M » Fri 24 May, 2019 11:13 pm

Nice systems there above, mine is Undercling Mike’s -2 down quilt, either silk or polypropylene stretch liner for 3-4 C extra warmth, blow up pillow, Thermarest Neoair xlite 3/4. Should do me as warm sleeper to -6 C cold for places I go to local and overseas.

I also have 0 and -2 C Western Mountaineering down sleeping bags plus, 0-2C and -6 C Kathmandu and Macpac older school sleeping bags plus a few older Thermarest closed cell foam 3/4 self inflatables.
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Re: sleep system

Postby bobcrusader » Sat 25 May, 2019 11:16 am

Just used this combo in remote north SA, where it got down to 2C
Nemo Fillo Pillow (best pillow ever - combo of air and foam)
S2S Ember EB I Quilt (loving the quilt experience)
S2S Thermolite Regular Liner
S2S Ultralight Insulated
Thermals, socks and beanie

I would describe it as being at the lower limit of comfortable at 2C though, but my next warmer setup is using a S2S TrekII -8C Comfort and would have been too warm.
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Re: sleep system

Postby sambar358 » Sat 25 May, 2019 4:48 pm

I do most of my lightweight camping in the Vic mountains in the dead of winter where night temps get down to -12C and my drink bottle in the tent freezes solid if I leave it out........so my sleeping kit for these conditions are :

Bag : Macpac Sanctuary XP900 Goose Down mummy Mat : Exped Downmat 9LW Pillow : Exped Aeros Large Jocks. socks and a cotton t-shirt in that bag ! Cheers

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Re: sleep system

Postby ChrisJHC » Sun 26 May, 2019 3:38 pm

Here’s mine:

Warbonnet Blackbird XLC hammock
Warbonnet Wookie Underquilt
Enlightened Equipment Top quilt

Had it down to -5 and had to shed clothes as I was too warm.

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Re: sleep system

Postby warnesy » Sun 26 May, 2019 4:40 pm

I've got the following as my little set up
S2S ultralight insulated mat
S2S aeros ultralight pillow
-8 underclying Mike quilt

I have the thermals and beanie on standby if it gets cold...
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Re: sleep system

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 27 May, 2019 5:15 pm

The thing about a sleep system is that it should be adaptable to cope with almost any temperature on the planet. So those of you who have posted quilts did you order them oversized to use with a LW sleeping bag in winter and get another 12 to 15 degrees of capability>??
I like this game and I play it all the time.
How would you adapt if you suddenly had to go somewhere really cold or somewhere hot and sticky?
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Re: sleep system

Postby Heremeahappy1 » Tue 28 May, 2019 8:32 am

Using thos Enlightened Equipmemt chart to gauge when nesting sleeping bags/quilts. My 4c quilt(40f) nested with my -1c bag(30f) should be good down to 0f or -17c. Even conservatively Id take -10c. And thats 1.5kg combined. 2 bag combos get me three temp range options - without fine tuning using clothing.
Also means less gear purchase.
https://support.enlightenedequipment.co ... ro-camping
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Re: sleep system

Postby Rosscodj » Tue 28 May, 2019 8:53 am

Fixed:
Moondog55 wrote:The thing about a sleep system is that it should be adaptable to cope with almost any temperature you could be reasonably expected to encounter where and when you're headed


I do basically all my walking on east coast NSW. I'm yet to encounter a situation where my sleep system hasn't kept up. I have used my -8 deg quilt with thermals and a down jacket in -5 conditions, and it was perfectly fine, but it was on a big camping mat (one of those 4wd self inflating ones). My hiking mat is only rated to ~ -3deg but even with my ccf layered with it, I don't know if it would work for me because I tend to sleep cold. I'd be hesitant to take what I currently have anywhere I'd expect snow, or much below freezing, even the main range mid-summer. If I ever decide I want to go somewhere colder, I'd simply get the right tools for the job, instead of trying to fudge something together.
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Re: sleep system

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 28 May, 2019 9:15 am

I don't consider it fudging tho; but I know what you mean.
I do consider my down and synthetically insulated clothing to be part of my own sleeping system, other folk don't sleep in their clothes. I have sleeping bags to cover from warm to cold and to extreme cold but any of them can be boosted by the use of over quilts and/or clothing. Obviously I wouldn't bring an Antarctic winter bag [ ~2.3 kilos and rated -55C] on a summer trip or try and stretch a summer quilt [ ~450g and rated 12C] for an Australian Alpine winter but within those constraints I like the flexibility of layering up.
My APEX quilt is massively oversized so I can layer up over any of my bags if needed, the same goes for the use of sleeping bag covers and bivvy bags and the use of RFL or Vapour Barrier liners
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Re: sleep system

Postby slparker » Tue 28 May, 2019 9:49 am

I definitely go the layering route. I have a EE quilt rated to -1 that suits me for most of my walking but for snow camping I use an old paddy pallin sleeping bag as a 'liner'. This combo is good to -10. If it got any colder I might need to sleep in my down jacket but there is no way on earth i would buy a -15 sleeping bag for the unlikely event that I might need it. My sleep system always includes my insulating clothing layers as part of it and as backup for it.
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Re: sleep system

Postby crollsurf » Tue 28 May, 2019 9:57 am

I got EE quilts, a Revelation -6C and an APEX +10C which cover all seasons. Really like my EE's, I think I would have liked Mikes more maybe but he didn't do Long x XWide until recently. +10C is perfect for most of NSW for 6 months of the year. I haven't bothered but I could pair the two together for snow but I only camp on snow in Spring and the -6 has been fine.

Sheet of Polycro
Thermarest Neo Xlite Large
EE Revelation APEX 10C
Pack and Puffer and stuff for a pillow (better than any pillow I bought)
STS Nano Mosquito Net

The Mosquito Net works well for me weighs less than 100g so I take it everytime with the Tarp but don't always use it. You can peg it out but I prefer to cinch it under my mat which probably wouldn't work for anything other than a full length inflatable. It's off my face but it does touch around the feet so with a quilt/bag, that's not a problem. Also you can cinch the net under the groundsheet, bringing the sides of the groundsheet up around the side of the mat for rain protection.

I'm with Moondog re sizing of Quilts. It's not worth it to save a few grams. Bigger quilts are more comfortable and you don't have to strap them down to stop drafts. Same with wearing hiking cloths to bed as insulation.

setup.jpg
Sleeping setup with Zpacks 2.6 x 3.0 Tarp
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Re: sleep system

Postby sasfish » Sun 02 Jun, 2019 11:43 am

That zpacks setup is sick!! Also sambar358 I am hoping to do some deer chasing down that this winter.
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Re: sleep system

Postby north-north-west » Sun 02 Jun, 2019 12:27 pm

I'm still trying to come up with a sleep system that works. Chronic insomnia is a bugger.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
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Re: sleep system

Postby Heremeahappy1 » Sun 02 Jun, 2019 3:41 pm

+1 Crollsurf.
My 3 season Vic is almost identical. Tarp = Tier gear sil-poly and UC Mike +4c quilt. Had a few frost nights, just sleep wearing bubble goose and beanie.
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Re: sleep system

Postby ribuck » Mon 03 Jun, 2019 3:18 pm

north-north-west wrote:I'm still trying to come up with a sleep system that works.

The sleep system that works for me is: "No coffee later than breakfast" :(
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Re: sleep system

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 03 Jun, 2019 4:04 pm

ribuck wrote:
north-north-west wrote:I'm still trying to come up with a sleep system that works.

The sleep system that works for me is: "No coffee later than breakfast" :(

I must admit that this helps a bit but I have to include cocoa and chockalate too
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Re: sleep system

Postby stry » Mon 03 Jun, 2019 8:02 pm

I think my system is much simpler than some :)

1/ Check temperature forecast for planned trip.

2/ Select sleeping bag (or UCMikes' quilt) that should let me sleep at forecast/guesstimated temps in socks, jocks and a thermal top. Yes I take a good mat regardless. And a silk inner.

3/ If I get 1/ and/or 2/ wrong, or unforeseen factors kick in, I can add clothing as needed. I always carry a dry set of socks and thermals, and a down pullover, plus beanie or down hat, and balaclava (thanks MD :) )

3/ Occurred on BHP a month or so ago, when after struggling to get to sleep for an hour or so, I added merino bottoms, and thicker socks (already had the down pullover and hat on) and all was well. Odd thing is that it wasn't particularly cold - heavy frost, but water didn't freeze. Old age I s'pose :(
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Re: sleep system

Postby Hiking Noob » Mon 03 Jun, 2019 8:46 pm

I went a bit different and went with a rectangular quilt that goes under the mat completely, I am a rubbish sleeper no matter how much exercise I do so I need something that makes tossing and turning easier. I'm yet to use it, but in theory I can push down under my mat which should let me use it for a good part of the year, the lack of draft collar does concern me though, movements do seem to shift a lot of warm air out.

Quilt- Cumulus Comforter L500(-7deg)
S2S Reactor if it's cold or on it's own if it's hot.
Mat- S2S Comfort Plus or Klymit Static V Ultralite
Pillow- S2S Aeros or Klymit X pillow but I don't like either so I'm going to get a Fillo.
If it's really cold I can fit my Macpac hoodless summer bag under the quilt, as I only have a Macpac fancy swag I doubt I'll need the extra bag for warmth.
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Re: sleep system

Postby Al M » Wed 05 Jun, 2019 1:53 am

Moondog55 wrote: sleep system is that it should be adaptable to cope with almost any temperature on the planet.


It can work that way but there is wastage in weight and pack volume having to combine two sleeping bags or quilt with weight in the outer fabric of the secondary system. Apart from some flexibility in ranging the temperatures like adding a warmer liner and clothing, it’s better to have two specialised separate systems for extremes in temperature because even “almost every situation on the planet” varies too much -20 C sub arctic (more likely trekking winter in Nepal at 4000-5000m) to 20 C Mediterranean Sea level summer.

It also depends greatly on whether one is a warm sleeper vs a cold one varying by as much on average 5-10 C (some people way outside this range and beyond salvation needing more extreme measures).

As a warm sleeper my -2 C quilt with a silk or polystretch liner, t shirt and undies (warmer) or long thermals (colder) will do me for -6 to -10 C or my - 6 C bag plus liners down to -12 C.

The issues with oversizing a quilt or bag is you have to live with that more of the time when one doesn’t need to in terms of weight, bulk and cold spots (i.e why do mummy tapered designs bags exist) that the body has to heat extremity voids - many compromises.

It depends we’re one uses it of course. I have got by on a 0 C bag with liner for the last 30 years, on and off backpacking overland and many treks in Europe, Nepal, Africa, South America, Aust, NZ, Japan winter and summer. During that time my -9 C bag sat idle most of the time being too warm for 90% of those locations. One can easily dial temperature up but not so easy downwards unless just spread across the toes. That type of use travel, trekking and home hikes needs to cover use in hostels, trains, friends places, car camping, hikes, Himalayan treks, Mediterranean and tropics with night temperature ranges of only -5 C to 15 C so a sleep system in the lower middle temperature range of that should suit most (0 C for warm sleeper or -5 C cold sleeper).
Last edited by Al M on Thu 06 Jun, 2019 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sleep system

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 05 Jun, 2019 2:33 am

Valid points as they stand Al M, but the difference in weight between my over sized quilt and the standard is only about 80 grams, 15GSM fabric doesn't weigh all that much. The difference between my normal mummy bag at -4C and -30C is what down I wear in it, yes there may be a small weight penalty there too but it isn't much these days with UL fabrics and 900FP down. So I get to keep using my bag right through the winter of my old age by carrying an extra pound and not spending a thousand dollars on a new winter bag for Australia. Personal choice to suit personal circumstances, also I am a cold sleeper and have always needed a bag 5C warmer than most people and it gets worse as I get older.
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Re: sleep system

Postby Al M » Thu 06 Jun, 2019 1:18 am

It may not seem like much but 80g extra weight in an oversized quilt starts to approach a full zipped equivalent sleeping bag so the quilt factor advantages can start to get diluted. For example, I have a -2 C quilt at 550g vs same rated 680g sleeping bag, the latter will be warmer for extremes with less excess voids and leakage.

The fabric weight in even a high end quilt or sleeping can be 40-50% the total weight so it’s not insignificant. It’s still very much a compromise to combine two systems but can be made to work with the extra fiddling around but starts to eat into base weight issues and simplicity.
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Re: sleep system

Postby crollsurf » Thu 06 Jun, 2019 8:03 am

Upsizing a standard EE Revelation to wide is only 20g, even a -17C is only an extra 30g. But the biggest advantages to a quilt, for me at least, is temperature control and that they work so much better if you are a restless sleeper. Scratching your ankle can be a near on impossible in some bags, no problems in a quilt.

20g is good weight if it means avoiding drafts &/or adds comfort.
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Re: sleep system

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 06 Jun, 2019 8:49 am

Using an overquilt has the very big advantage of shifting the dew point out of the down bag tho which happens even with hyperdry down and that can save added weight from absorbed water. You don't always get warm sunny days in winter to dry out a down bag. Also the space between the overquilt and the down bag is where you put your boots and water bottles to stop them from freezing solid overnite which perhaps is the biggest reason I like the system I have. If you don't spend a lot of time on snow this might not seem like such a big deal but I hate pulling on frozen ski boots in the morning or having to hold them over the burning stove to thaw them out. Adding 500 grams of extra down fill would give a much warmer sleeping bag but isn't as versatile, it's the versatility that appeals to me as much as the unfrozen boots in the AM
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Re: sleep system

Postby Walk_fat boy_walk » Thu 06 Jun, 2019 11:35 am

In response to the OP:

I either use one of Mike's -2C quilts or a Western Mountaineering Alpinlite (about -8C) depending on temp (580 or 900g)
Pillow is one of the Klymit UL ones with Goosefeet Gear down pillow sleeve insert thingy (thoroughly recommend, only weighs about 30g i think)
Mattress is a TAR neoair x-lite
Add a Borah Gear cuben/argon bivy (about 130g) for extra warmth or if outside the tent or tarp
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