Windshirt Vs Shell Crossing point?

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Windshirt Vs Shell Crossing point?

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 20 Nov, 2018 12:55 pm

A prelude question to one of my DIY projects for Canada/Alaska in 2020.
Where is the line ?
At what point does a heavy duty windshirt become a lightweight shell?
At what air permeability and hydrostatic head?

If there are garments out there that fit into this rather wide spectrum what are they?
Having bought that Absolute Zero down parka I find that my proposed layering system won't work and I need to start again, the parka is too warm and won't fit over my proposed layering because it is only just big enough
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Windshirt Vs Shell Crossing point?

Postby Lamont » Tue 20 Nov, 2018 2:30 pm

Is a "heavy duty wind shirt" - little or no CFM?
By shell you mean closeish to WR/WPish?
Active or Static? Both -a compromise?
Isn't the magic formula (Nisley BPL) -35CFM and 300HH? The perfect ACTIVE wet weather or cold dry SHELL!
So CFM well below this 35CFM (is this what you call heavy duty?) and HH well above the 300HH. Would this be a good starting point?
In a perfect world 35CFM and 300HH++ ACTIVE.
STATIC CFM can be near zero and HH what -a few thousand /10,000 couldn't it?
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Re: Windshirt Vs Shell Crossing point?

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 20 Nov, 2018 3:30 pm

35CFM and 300mm HH describes the perfect windshirt for an MET of 7. Sometimes I work much harder than this but often much less.
When I say Heavy Duty it's more in the sense of being highly wear resistant coupled with excellent tear strength, something none of my current windshirts are any good at.
I'm thinking of sled hauling in -30C temperatures where a slightly less breathable fabric may give me more warmth with less clothing while not wearing though where the sled harness in in contact. I'm thinking of the Ventile shells I used to own while in Scotland but without being so heavy or so absorbent.
Say the civilian equivalent of the PCU level 5 shell
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Windshirt Vs Shell Crossing point?

Postby slparker » Tue 20 Nov, 2018 6:43 pm

I still think a marmot driclime is the most versatile of my shell garments (I also have a couple of 'windshirts '. A pile inner with a low cfm outer. I can walk/ski/cycle all day in cool - cold weather and it withstands light and intermittent rain - the sort of alpine weather that has you taking a rain jacket off and on again if you didn’t have a driclime on. The moisture in the garment just evaporates away as soon as the rain stops.
It has a low cfm so technically isn’t as good for the outdoors as a more air permeable garment but that doesn’t stop me reaching for it every time I load my pack. I run hot, walk fast, sweat freely but still rate this low air permeable garment. I get the science behind the 30cfm thing but in practice when you saturate a garment with sweat like I do The pile interior comes into its own. I consider it a heavy duty windshirt but in no way is it a hard shell.

To answer your question, the crossing point, in my opinion, is an air permeable membrane garment. Anything less is really just a windshell, especially given the poor DWR of garments these days.
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Re: Windshirt Vs Shell Crossing point?

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 21 Nov, 2018 8:49 am

Polartec NeoShell?
The Driclime looks OK but not exactly what I was thinking of.
I know how well a LW fleece works under a breathable shell as that is what I was wearing last week; but my old Puma top has worn out and my new one is far too heavy to consider packing it for this trip
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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