boots worn by the military

[Joomy]

Perhaps ...

I thought SAS members have to maintain their secrecy, so as such will not reveal their position publicly. It's alright. It's not an important enough issue to argue over.

Well, nobody has really claimed anything. Besides, what could be more 'anonymous' than using forum nom-de-plumes?

Post script. Regarding GPS, the Garmin Foretrex 401 is fairly popular.

All the best.

Noms-de-plum Sorry couldn't help myself!

Back on topic, I would absolutely hate to be told what gear to wear in a life-and-death situation. I understand that the risk is that some people will make poor choices but as a gear head I would really want to pick stuff that suited me and my environment. Having recommended brands and models is fine but if someone really wants to go out and do the research to find the best stuff for them they should be allowed to subject to a senior person's approval obviously. For example it makes perfect sense to me for a fast and light special forces soldier to wear trail runners instead of bulky heavy boots but somehow I don't think that's very common.

Edit: Actually looking through that blog it seems as though footwear at least is often left to personal choice, which is great.

[Spartan]

Joomy,

That's why we now have 'Diggerworks'. It's job is to research the best and lightest gear available, and to put it in soldier's hands.

All the best.

[corvus]

Interesting thread ,when I was a snotty nosed "jack the lad" in the TA Royal Engineers I decided (after much coaxing from my Captain ) that I should put my self in for the Para Training so that I could be a " Real Combat Engineer " I duly did so and from memory did not get any specialised equipment and indeed jumped with my issued "Ammunition Boots" ,almost 50 years ago but I do know they did not let us jump with weapons ,so much for being "combat engineers"all good fun however I suspect some of my leg problems now may stem from that
corvus

[icefest]

Spartan, you mentioned you have your own sleeping setup and footwear, are you allowed to tell what it is?

[Scottyk]

I used to be in the Navy. We had our boots given to us, same for everyone and they were awful!
The amount of times people ask me about the military and then come out with their own story of "my friend used to be in the SAS..........". Most of them hadn't even been in boy scouts.
It seams everyone seems to know someone who used be be serving there. Must be a big unit, or maybe some people are telling fibs.
I have no reason to doubt any forum members. As Spartan says there a lot of people who work at Campbell Barracks who are not operators as such.

[Nuts]

Iv'e removed a couple of offending posts here. Please keep it family friendly.

[Nuts]

Did you get those leather sole hob nail parade boots Scotty? Iv'e seen someone stuck with them on a 3 day 'bushwalk' haha. Wev'e had a few pongos guiding, easy to work with.. they always hit a steep learning curve to have any hope of fitting all the food. ( ie. 'no, you don't need the bayonet, that's valuable space for a cucumber )

Their gear and training are very much 'old school', I guess their knees only need to last a short time.

[wayno]

i see the us army develops some of its own gear at tehir own research centre
I think this shirt was a collaboration with polartec manufacturing the fabric, polartec also developed "alpha" synthetic insulated jackets for the military and these items aere now available to the public

http://peosoldier.armylive.dodlive.mil/ ... shirt-acs/

[Scottyk]

Did you get those leather sole hob nail parade boots Scotty? Iv'e seen someone stuck with them on a 3 day 'bushwalk' haha. Wev'e had a few pongos guiding, easy to work with but they always hit a steep learning curve. Their gear and training are very much 'old school', I guess their knees only need to last a short time.

We got these high black leather things. Didn't have leather soles but they were awful. I remember they didn't quite have my size so I got given about a size too small. So for 3 months of recruit training I had to double (run) every were in cramped boots. Tried the old soaking them in hot water trick etc.
They were comfortable after about 8 weeks, before that they were torture.
At least we did't do pack marching like the army does, I have been told that is a one way ticket to injury for a lot of guys.

[wayno]

yeah well anyone who's worn old style boots minus any soft cushioning for any length of time and covered a lot of ground will probably have suffered some sort of damage to their joints.

[GPSGuided]

Did you get those leather sole hob nail parade boots Scotty? Iv'e seen someone stuck with them on a 3 day 'bushwalk' haha.

During our army cadet years, we were issued leather soled boots without hob nails. They were skaters in our school playground. Just dreadful to think back.

[wayno]

i enquired about joining the army in NZ
they told me i had to play a team sport... that would mean cutting into my weekend overnight bushwalking and there was no way i was going to let that happen....

[GPSGuided]

i enquired about joining the army in NZ
they told me i had to play a team sport... that would mean cutting into my weekend overnight bushwalking and there was no way i was going to let that happen....

You should have just told them you also do team overnight orienteering!

[Nuts]

Did you get those leather sole hob nail parade boots Scotty? Iv'e seen someone stuck with them on a 3 day 'bushwalk' haha.

During our army cadet years, we were issued leather soled boots without hob nails. They were skaters in our school playground. Just dreadful to think back.

Hmmm, they may have just been flat nails though yes, they were deadly. To watch someone trying to bushwalk in them was hilarious.
Some of the Oz issue stuff iv'e seen (up to a couple of years back) is still crap.. there probably is no 'ideal' way to carry all that kit.. though it sounds like things are more flexible with the gear source now.

[GPSGuided]

Hmmm, they may have just been flat nails though yes, they were deadly. To watch someone trying to bushwalk in them was hilarious.
Some of the Oz issue stuff iv'e seen (up to a couple of years back) is still crap.. there probably is no 'ideal' way to carry all that kit.. though it sounds like things are more flexible with the gear source now.

What amazed me was, those were gears no different to those used using WW2 and at least into Korea and possibly Vietnam. We had those boots with canvas gaiters. The very few dedicated rank-up aspirants went and got their parents to buy them rubber soled high boots with toe shines. The rest of us had no hopes but to keep polishing our gaiters and boots to the end of our days. So sad.

[Spartan]

Spartan, you mentioned you have your own sleeping setup and footwear, are you allowed to tell what it is?

For work I team a One Planet 'Sac 2' with a One Planet Austcam Gore-tex bivi bag they made for me back in 1993, and an olive drab Thermarest self-inflating mat. Hoof-wise, I normally wear Danner 'Acadia' boots, although I've been known to slip on a pair of (older style) Scarpa 'SL' boots too.

I used to be in the Navy. We had our boots given to us, same for everyone and they were awful! The amount of times people ask me about the military and then come out with their own story of "my friend used to be in the SAS..........". Most of them hadn't even been in boy scouts. It seams everyone seems to know someone who used be be serving there. Must be a big unit, or maybe some people are telling fibs. I have no reason to doubt any forum members. As Spartan says there a lot of people who work at Campbell Barracks who are not operators as such.

Given the amount of people claiming to having served as Troopers in SASR, every second person who has ever served in the Army would have to have been a beret-qualified Operator! The reality is quite different. The SOCOMD community is rather small; everybody either knows everybody else, or they are, at best, only one person removed from everyone else. Consequently, those people who make a habit of 'misrepresenting' their service (i.e. they lie about it) invariably get exposed.

Getting back to the topic of this thread boots, large packs and sleeping gear aside, the issue equipment nowadays is either serviceable to very good. There is a downside, though. We invariably carry more of it! When I deployed to East Timor in 1999, patrol weight (less large pack) was probably around 18kg. On my deployments to Afghanistan, it had risen to around 28kg. Factor in a multi-day dismounted task and the weight carried rises exponentially. For example a mate of mine was a Patrol Commander given the rather dubious privilege of being tasked with establishing an OP on top of a rather large feature. His pack alone weighed close to 50kg. My friend assured me afterwards that it wasn't a whole lot of fun carrying that weight several hundred meters up a 45 degree slope, at night, in quick-time. I laughed; he didn't.

All the best.

[Spartan]

i enquired about joining the army in NZ
they told me i had to play a team sport... that would mean cutting into my weekend overnight bushwalking and there was no way i was going to let that happen....

Wayne,

Pity. You could've been paid to engage in your love of bushwalking!

All the best.

[wayno]

dunno, i've come across the SAS training in the hills in the area, i take a look at the size of their packs and the sweat pouring of them and think hmm.. i got off lightly...

[GPSGuided]

So Spartan, with that 18kg of operational weight you carried, how much of that can be attributed to weapon and ammunition? I'd imagine quite significantly. Just recently at the Naval Parade ship opening, I had the opportunity to handle some of the "light" weapons on one of the ships. Were they heavy! Something I almost forgot. Will UL philosophy reach weapon and ammo designs? Anyone for Coke can grenades?

[Spartan]

dunno, i've come across the SAS training in the hills in the area, i take a look at the size of their packs and the sweat pouring of them and think hmm.. i got off lightly...

Wayne,

"Pain is just weakness leaving the body"

All the best.

[Spartan]

So Spartan, with that 18kg of operational weight you carried, how much of that can be attributed to weapon and ammunition? I'd imagine quite significantly. Just recently at the Naval Parade ship opening, I had the opportunity to handle some of the "light" weapons on one of the ships. Were they heavy! Something I almost forgot.

Well the M4 (and associated attachments/snot) weighs about 4kg (unloaded), and the accompanying ammunition/ordnance required can add another 7-8kg quite easily. Factor in TBAS (i.e. the body armour/helmet), pistol, communications gear, water/food, optics, and other such stuff, and suddenly you find that 22-28kg describes a fairly 'lean' load for a single day's dismounted patrol (i.e. without the large pack).

I 'fondly' remember being a very young Infantryman many years ago doing the Battalion's 60km qualification route march, carrying the MAG58 GPMG. That beast wasn't slung, and it weighed almost 11kg all by itself

All the best.

[GPSGuided]

No wonder the US Army is developing those robot suits. Insane weights!

[Spartan]

No wonder the US Army is developing those robot suits. Insane weights!

Yes, and don't forget one isn't simply taking a casual stroll either. When the rounds start flying you're doing sprints, leopard crawling, and other such high-intensity aerobic nonsense. It all takes a toll on one's body (and sense of humour).

All the best.

[slparker]

Postscript: As for what 'RS' was wearing on the day(s) leading up to his VC-awarded engagement, he chose to wear his 'Brooks' runners for the combination of light weight and stealth they provided. For interests' sake, they were 'written-off' in the process

All the best.

This sounds a lot less wryly humorous after the BRS defamation findings...

[GPSGuided]

This sounds a lot less wryly humorous after the BRS defamation findings...

All very sad! Tarnished the reputation of the country, VC, ADF and the missions involved. Morality must come foremost when it comes to wars and conflicts.

[Moondog55]

All our feet are different. The red jungle boots from WW2 are a good fit on my are a good fit, the broad toed Vietnam era boot GS was better, the boot DMS which came afterwards was simply awful and a real blister machine and the new boot is OK until the liner starts to come away from the leather.
I have Aborigine feet, very broad toes and skinny ankles and shins so nothing really fits well but Italian climbing boots are OK.
My feet are apparently the only size not available in the new issue boot but they were cheap so I wore them
Anybody wants a pair of Bates ICW boots in size 12 I can let them go cheap

[markg]

Perhaps those in command should have limited the amount of rotations done by SAS personnal consecutively. The constant strain of their duties must surely take it's toll over time. Difficult to see things without full knowledge of what goes on and what is expected of individuals , goals etc. Incredibly hostile environment in more ways than one. There is not one army or conflict known that hasn't seen morality go out the window at one time or another for various reasons. On the subject of equipment, I know for a fact that a lot of US personnel source some items from outside the military, backpacks are one example.

[slparker]

Perhaps those in command should have limited the amount of rotations done by SAS personnal consecutively. The constant strain of their duties must surely take it's toll over time. .

Agree, the personnell in SASR were subject to a punishing regime of deployments and. knowing the military like I do, I am sure many pushed the rules of armed conflict to the limit, including stepping over the line. But, BRS shouldn't have machinegunned a captive and he shouldn't have kicked another captive off a cliff, and then bullied a subordinate into executing him. Even by SAS standards, and not only Military, Civil and international law, this was beyond the pale. As many will attest to - conducting yourself as a self appointed executioner breeds more insurgents, not only is it unlawful and immoral - it is irrational and self defeating.

On the subject of equipment, I know for a fact that a lot of US personnel source some items from outside the military, backpacks are one example.

Aus soldiers do (or did) have some latitude there as well but usually selecting from a range of authorised items of equipment. Notably, some years ago, there was a grenade incident where the use of a civilian sourced ammo pouch was implicated - the army cracked down on kit after that.

[tgdavies]

To bring the thread back on topic, Varusteleka have a good range of military/military style boots, and shipping is not exorbitant: https://www.varusteleka.com/en/group/combat-boots/167

[Mcspud]

SF like the Danners if they wear issued boots at all