Tape abseiling harness designs

[FatCanyoner]

G'day folks,

I'm never sure how many people on here are involved in rope type pursuits (canyoning, climbing, caving etc), but there seem to be a few, so I'll post this. Actually, I think it is relevant to all bushwalkers given I always take my emergency abseiling rig with me on off-track / pass-finding walks to deal with unforeseen situations (my set up, using 20m of 6mm rope, a carabiner and a simple tape harness is here: http://fatcanyoners.org/bush-guide/making-a-tape-harness/).

Anyway, a canyoning friend has just put together a 'how to' guide with two more tape harness designs that are safer and more comfortable. They literally cost just a few dollars to make, and can be as comfortable as a commercial harness. Best of all, they are extremely light and can stay packed away at the bottom of the pack for an emergency.

His designs are here: http://fatcanyoners.org/bush-guide/alternate-tape-harness/

Do many people on here use tape harnesses on their bushwalks? Have you come across any better designs?

Cheers

Tim

[climberman]

I have a 95gm harness for ski mountaineering by CAMP out of Italy. It's not the best thing to spend a few hours hanging in, but then what is? Fits in a coffee cup as well. http://www.camp-usa.com/products/harnesses/alp-95.asp it was s/hand so no idea of cost or Oz availability.

[michael_p]

Animated knots by Grog has a DIY harness: Hasty Harness.

[cams]

Some cool ideas there. The first one doesn't look ideal with regards to tri/cross-loading the biner.

[FatCanyoner]

Climberman, thanks for the link. That looks cool. I'll have to check out the availability in Aus. I suppose the benefit of a tape harness will still be price (and I think also slightly lighter) so you don't have to worry about wrecking them. That said, it you're after something for more of a climbing or bushwalking use rather than canyons, where you'll wear it out by wearing it for long periods, the Camp harness is a great option.

Michael, I've seen that variation before. It is a good one, given the higher anchor point and extra loops on the waist for added comfort. I still prefer ones that you just tie once and forget (which is how my preferred design, rather than Bjorn's works) because I hate pfaffing about, especially if you need a party of six to share one tape harness!

Cams, agree about the issue of cross loading the 'biner. That was one of the reasons Bjorn was keen to highlight some of the alternate systems that avoid this.

[michael_p]

Various DIY harness ideas:
1. Swiss Seat Harness.

Two styles shown in this video. The first one looks very similar to the one on the Animated Knots sight and the second one looks a lot like Bjorn's alternate tape harness.

Interesting idea.

[clarence]

I use a variant of the "hasty harness". I only use a loop or two around the waist tied with a tape knot, with the loop sitting above the pubic area pulled down a lot lower and tighter than as shown in the video.
I have used this system for years, and tied properly it will stay on all day and be relatively comfortable (depending on what diameter of tape is used).
It means I carry a few 5 metre lengths of tape which can be used for harnesses, or anchors, or tied together end to end to make a 10m handline/pack hauling rope.
I always carry a few lengths of 5m tape, prussik cord, a screwgate and descender for each person in the party with 30 or 40 metres of 8mm static line.
I have done some pretty "out there" trips with this setup. The descent of the canyon below Sluice Box falls is one of the most memorable.

On that topic, the classic / over the shoulder abseil is an equally useful skill to learn for less critical descents to save time/setups.

For a super lightweight setup, one of the strands of the abseil rope can be substituted with a cordelette of 3 or 4mm cord tied to a steel ring or maillon/rapide at the end of the main rope tied around the anchor/tree. The cordelette is used to pull down the abseil rope at the base of the cliff. Next time I use this setup on a trip, I'll take some pics and post them if anyone is interested.

Clarence

[Liamy77]

Hmmm... AKA "do-it-youself Vasectomy"

[michael_p]

...Next time I use this setup on a trip, I'll take some pics and post them if anyone is interested...

Yes please, that would be good.

[FatCanyoner]

...Next time I use this setup on a trip, I'll take some pics and post them if anyone is interested...

Yes please, that would be good.

+1

Michael / Clarence, thanks for the extra info. A few more variations to experiment with there.

As for the classic, over the shoulder abseil technique, I totally agree. I've done this a couple times for interest, but I haven't needed it yet. I've been thinking of writing up a post with pics of a few variations of it that I've seen (one seems ideal for a steep scramble, another seems more symmetrical and possibly comfortable). I need to have a play. Either way, definitely a skill people should have, just in case!

Tim

[clarence]

Probably worth mentioning here to anyone following this thread, as with all rope activities, make sure you understand the basic principles of safe rope skills so you can operate safely within the limits of your knowledge and ability. An excellent introduction is the book Mountaineering- the Freedom of the Hills by The Mountaineers. Before you consider any opinions that FatCanyoner or I or anyone else put up here, learn the basics of safe ropework from a reliable source.

I got my camera out yesterday (in the bush) and this evening (not in the bush) to take these pics. Used the tape harness yesterday for few short drops to access an amazing walking location.

First pic is of the harness, with only one and a half loops around the waist. Tying it low and tight at the front is important if you are doing walking of any distance, as leaving it loose will mean the underleg straps fall down and interfere with the natural walking motion, and the anchor point will pull up uncomfortably far when the harness is loaded. I walked in this one for about half and hour without any problem.

The second pic is a cordelette method I use. It is mainly a "just in case" scenario. For example, take 40m of 8mm cord for a walk. What happens when you encounter a 20m drop where the anchor is a few metres from the edge? Bad luck, walk back. If you take another 40m of 3 or 4mm cord and a steel ring (or maillon as in this case) you can do a nearly 40m descent and only need to carry a little more gear. It got me through at least a few places where the main rope would have been too short. Obviously the anchor tightens around the tree, with the steel ring and bowline/double figure 8 knot doing all the work. At the base of the drop (once the knot at the bottom end of the abseil rope is untied) pull down on the cordelette (blue cord) to clear the rope. It is a bit fiddly, but allows a much greater access with only marginally more gear. It is good on multiday walks where there may only be a handful of abseils in total (saves carrying all that gear for days on end).

I run the cordelette through the descender to keep the setup neat more than anything. However, if rope reteival is an issue, the cordelette could be fed out over a clearer retreival line out of the line of the actual abseil. Note the small diameter figure 8 which is great on single and small diameter ropes.

If you go with thin (6mm ropes) as FatCanyoner mentions, be aware that a bowline or double figure 8 knot will reduce rope strength at that point by about 40% (as it will with all kernamantle ropes I believe). In this case I prefer a 7 or 8mm rope which will give something around the 9kN less 40%=5.4kN (which I feel a little safer on than 6mm).

Clarence

[michael_p]

Clarence,

Thank you for demonstrating your method of using a Tape Harness. I really like your method for rope retrieval. Although that rig looks to be a bit of overkill for the lego man .

...Probably worth mentioning here to anyone following this thread, as with all rope activities, make sure you understand the basic principles of safe rope skills so you can operate safely within the limits of your knowledge and ability...

Absolutely, this cannot be stressed enough.

Michael.

[clarence]

It is actually a lego WOMAN. Comes from the new garbage truck set #4432. If you zoom in you can see the lipstick. The first two people to follow me when I initially used this cordelette setup in a little known Budawangs canyon were girls- but they forgot their lipstick on that trip (unlike female garbage truck operators in lego sets).
Clarence

[cams]

It is actually a lego WOMAN. Comes from the new garbage truck set #4432. If you zoom in you can see the lipstick. The first two people to follow me when I initially used this cordelette setup in a little known Budawangs canyon were girls- but they forgot their lipstick on that trip (unlike female garbage truck operators in lego sets).
Clarence

Dunno about that tree though :\

Nice photos. This method can also be used to isolate a damaged section of rope using an alpine butterfly above the damage instead of the figure 8 (credit to Phil Box on Qurank for that idea).

I'd likewise be sketchy about using 6mm cord for rapping. The amount of abrasion resistance offered would worry me probably more so than the absolute load rating.

[Moondog55]

I normally use Spectra for my safety rope, I wonder if I started taking an extra length of Spidererwire I could use that for the :Cordellette. and use that rope belay method, a short length of heavy stitched tape instead of the knotted rope perhaps?

[clarence]

I'm not sure I know what spidererwire is?
The problem I see with some of the smaller diameter cords (as many of the spectra lines appear to be) is that they are too small to provide enough diameter for friction and good handling. As a retreival line though, such material may well be ideal.
I have heard of abseiling being done on tubular tape, but have never tried it myself.
Clarence

[Moondog55]

the Spiderwire that i have is an incredibly strong braided fishing line. 120kg breaking strain, given to me by a shark fishing mate
I usually take car of the frictin by using an added wrap around my Figure8

[jackhinde]

have you ever had trouble retrieving a rope with that system clarence? or problems with the retrieval line interfering with the action of the device?
it looks so much simpler than the retrieval system i use

[Liamy77]

I've treid a few tape harnessess made up on the spot and seriously you DON'T wwnat to fall in them.... are if that lego preson was a lady or just took a few meters drop and became one??? joking aside these can hurt if you're not careful

[FatCanyoner]

The second pic is a cordelette method I use. It is mainly a "just in case" scenario. For example, take 40m of 8mm cord for a walk. What happens when you encounter a 20m drop where the anchor is a few metres from the edge? Bad luck, walk back. If you take another 40m of 3 or 4mm cord and a steel ring (or maillon as in this case) you can do a nearly 40m descent and only need to carry a little more gear.

Clarence, that's great advice. Plenty of people use single rope technique (SRT) in canyons, for exactly the reasons you outline (you can double the distance you can abseil by taking very little extra gear). I haven't come across anyone who uses this with bushwalking, and I'm kicking myself for not doing the same. The weight of a maillon and some cord is negligible, especially compared to what you are already carrying with rope, tape harness, 'biner. I'll definitely have to start doing this!

I've treid a few tape harnessess made up on the spot and seriously you DON'T want to fall in them...

Agreed Liam. I think the emergency tape harness option is far better for walking than climbing. Most designs also sit quite low, so I'd be less confident of them holding you if you were inverted when you fell! I do use them when doing top belays on tricky scrambles on bushwalks, but in those situations you can keep the rope quite taunt so if there is a fall it is only a matter of centimetres, not metres, which will do a lot to reduce risk and discomfort.

[clarence]

In response to your question jackhinde, I have not had any trouble retreiving the rope using this method, nor with it interfering with the rappel device. However, I use it as a "just in case" system, rather than the standard- I do try to take as much rope as I plan on using most of the time. On the times I have used it, the system works well. This is just my experience, and hence represents a relatively small sample size.

One issue is ropes tangling when setting up, especially the smaller diameter stuff. It is worth taking the time to sort out the rope before and after each pitch.

I did look up the Mountaineering - the Freedom of the Hills book for reference. It only refers to the "diaper sling" and nothing else. Also the reduction in strength associated with a bowline or double figure of eight is in the vicinity of 20-30% (not 40% as I stated earlier) according to the same publication.

I was shown the "hasty harness" system over 20 years ago from an Outward Bound instructor and have used it regularly since. I have used it on canyon trips where it is on all day and, provided it is done up tightly, the problems Liamy is concerned about have never arisen. I was toproping a guy up a pass in the Nattai a few weeks back (using this type of harness) and he slipped less than a metre. He injured his hand somewhat but didn't report any concerns with the harness digging in anywhere.

When I get the photos sorted I'll post a few in a trip report for this most recent Nattai trip. One of the most spectacular campsites in the Blue Mountains, and an eqaully spectacular and technical pass to get there.

Clarence

[michael_p]

...When I get the photos sorted I'll post a few in a trip report for this most recent Nattai trip. One of the most spectacular campsites in the Blue Mountains, and an equally spectacular and technical pass to get there...

Yes please.

[Maelgwn]

I've treid a few tape harnessess made up on the spot and seriously you DON'T want to fall in them...

Agreed Liam. I think the emergency tape harness option is far better for walking than climbing. Most designs also sit quite low, so I'd be less confident of them holding you if you were inverted when you fell! I do use them when doing top belays on tricky scrambles on bushwalks, but in those situations you can keep the rope quite taunt so if there is a fall it is only a matter of centimetres, not metres, which will do a lot to reduce risk and discomfort.

I have used chest harnesses instead of the waist harness with a safety line (mainly for traversing steep terrain rather than vertical terrain), so that you wouldn't invert if you slipped with your pack on. The line is essentially fairly tight most of the time, so fall factor would be very low, but I sometimes doubt the security of a chest harness only? Anyone have any experience with this?