Grizzly Man and Into The Wild

[the_camera_poser]

Have you seen these films? They are beautifully put together, and have great soundtracks, but go to illustrate several points:

1) Americans are idiots (I'm an American, I can say this dang it!) (both movies)

2) You should have to get a licence to go into the Wilderness- *&%$#! idiots! (both movies)

3) Steve Irwin and his hug and kiss the wildlife approach has created a serious misunderstanding of wild animals (Grizzly Man)

4) Darwin was right about that whole natural selection tihng (both movies)

5) That my wife was right- Bears are scarier than Brown Snakes. (Grizzly Man)

Just some observations......

[MichaelfromQLD]

Too right. There are quite a few of those outdoor adventurey movies. There was another Everest one that I remember being quite bad.....

RE:

2) You should have to get a licence to go into the Wilderness- {bleeding} idiots! (both movies)

Too right. I'd be in support of such an idea.

Save the wilderness from idiots, and save idiots from themselves.

Maybe this can branch into it's own topic?

It would cost a lot of money but it could potentially be a good thing for the lisencing authority, which would hopefully not be national parks, but maybe someone like Scouts ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

I hope I haven't derailed the topic, as it's at least relevant to ONE of your points!

[alliecat]

Possibly the worst "wilderness" film was one on TV recently about three Austalian yuppies walking up Kilamanjaro. What bugged me about this piece of tripe was:
1. It was a guided walk - they were not exactly roughing it. There were scenes where they were talking to the camera about how tough a day they'd had, and what an effort it had been, all the while sitting on a comfy chair that one of the local porters had carried up the mountain for them!
2. It's not as if nobody has ever climbed Kilamanjaro before...
3. They only had to carry their day packs with some clothing and water, while the bulk of their gear was carried by the local guides.
4. They made the whole thing out to be a dramatic and dangerous journey - it was a guided walk for ***** sake!

Grrr. Made me angry.

Feel better now

[the_camera_poser]

Well, at least both movies illustrate a happy coincidence that sometimes occurs between wilderness and morons......

Bears EAT idiots

Maybe we should import some bears.....

[Joel]

I haven't seen the movie, but I've read Into the Wild and was a bit dissapointed. I think you have to look at it as a tale of non-survival and human pyschology.
Alliecat - read Dead Lucky by Lincoln Hall and then see how easy a guided mountaineering expedition is.
It's not the weight of carrying chairs or heavy packs that makes it dangerous and difficult. It's getting into The Thin Air!!!

[alliecat]

Alliecat - read Dead Lucky by Lincoln Hall and then see how easy a guided mountaineering expedition is.
It's not the weight of carrying chairs or heavy packs that makes it dangerous and difficult. It's getting into The Thin Air!!!

It was a walk (not a "mountaineering expedition") that probably tens of thousands have done before them. I thought it was incredibly arrogant of them to make such a big deal (and money) from doing what is essentially a tourist trip. As for thin air - they acclimatised and didn't suffer altitude sickness, so what's the big deal - it's not *that* high. Seriously, from their attitude you would have thought they had just conquered Everest, not walked up a mountain carrying day packs.

[the_camera_poser]

I haven't seen the movie, but I've read Into the Wild and was a bit dissapointed. I think you have to look at it as a tale of non-survival and human pyschology.
Alliecat - read Dead Lucky by Lincoln Hall and then see how easy a guided mountaineering expedition is.
It's not the weight of carrying chairs or heavy packs that makes it dangerous and difficult. It's getting into The Thin Air!!!

Both are very interesting psychological studies. Particularly Grizzly Man- what a whacko!

[johnw]

read Dead Lucky by Lincoln Hall and then see how easy a guided mountaineering expedition is. It's not the weight of carrying chairs or heavy packs that makes it dangerous and difficult. It's getting into The Thin Air!!!

I read Dead Lucky earlier this year and found it a good read. Although I got the sense that it was from the perspective of someone who was likely hallucinating much of the time. I think Lincoln possibly understates/underestimates the level of danger that he was in at times.

If you liked Dead Lucky, read "Into Thin Air" by Jon Krakauer (if you haven't already). Tells how things can really go pear shaped with tragic results.

I haven't seen the doco about the guys doing Kilamanjaro. What is it called?

I haven't seen the movie, but I've read Into the Wild and was a bit dissapointed. I think you have to look at it as a tale of non-survival and human pyschology.

The movie was showing on Foxtel Box Office recently, but gave it a miss because I think it was nearly 3 hours long (tend to nod off after a couple of hours these days ). Maybe I'll record it when it re-surfaces and watch it in instalments.

[the_camera_poser]

Ino The Wild is definitely worth watching- beautifully filmed with an awesome soundtrack by Eddie Vedder.

[johnw]

Ino The Wild is definitely worth watching- beautifully filmed with an awesome soundtrack by Eddie Vedder.

I did see the trailers and the cinematography looked quite breathtaking, will definitely get around to watching it eventually.

[the_camera_poser]

And both movies have a happy ending.....

[kahtadin]

Have a little experience in Treadwell's former neck of the woods and have at times flown Andrews Air with Tim's mail/supplies on board. Trust me, being around those bears for extended periods day & night just grinds on you pschologically. Not that they're particulary threatening, but it's always in the back of your mind that if things do go sour, to quote Leonard in Full Metal Jacket, you're in a world of s**t.

Still, I wouldn't trade my Alaskan times for anything, but I may be getting too old or cautious for those adventures.

Enjoyed the Richard Thompson soundtrack in Grizzly Man.

[Joel]

alliecat - I would suggest doing just a little bit of reading about kilimajaro before you say "it's not a climb, it's a walk". That is inaccurate. You must be a very fit and experienced climber if you can just go for a "walk" up kilimajaro. I sure wish I could. It may not be a technical climb, but it is incredibly strenuous and everything in Tasmania pales in comparison. Have you ever tried to suck in air above 5000m ASL while trying to climb? I have not been that high but my climbing partner has and I know how hard it is even for very fit people. " You can't call climbing Kilimajaro mountaineering" ....WT *$&#???

I did not think Lincoln Hall under estimated the danger he was in. He plainly stated many times through out the book how unlikely it was for him to have survived a night above 8500 ASL, suffering from HACE.

White Limbo is also another good one.

[Joel]

And while I'm at it I find it incredibly worriesome and almost offensive to think that people beleive access to the wilderness should be regulated by beurocrats, especially in Tasmania. Seriously, do you really think it's a good idea?
Do you trust the Tasmanian Government to protect our wilderness to the level we expect without any public scrutiny?
Have you heard of Murphy's Law? There will always be accidents no matter how you regulate access.
Do you not think the more people that love the wilderness, the better it will be protected?
How are people to develop passion if they have been banned from the bush and confined to the city?
What happened to spontanaiety? Why the hell should anyone need to satisfy someone elses requirements before they go for a walk/fish off the beaten track?
Why don't we try to ban everything that is even slightly dangerous. Bushwalking is SAFE. Sometimes things go wrong but that is not a reason to regulate access.
I know here is Tas the last couple of deaths have had nothing to do with experience or lack of.

sorry I'm ranting but it seriously scares me that people think that way.
p.s read "Frog Call" & "Artificial" by Greg French please!!!!!!!!!!

[Son of a Beach]

p.s read "Frog Call" & "Artificial" by Greg French please!!!!!!!!!!

Ditto. Frog Call is an excellent read. Emotional, political, relational, and wild. Haven't had time to read Artificial yet, but I'm working on it. And I don't even fish!

[johnw]

I did not think Lincoln Hall under estimated the danger he was in. He plainly stated many times through out the book how unlikely it was for him to have survived a night above 8500 ASL, suffering from HACE.

Joel, agreed. I was thinking more of the descent phase, where he was being guided down by others. I got the impression that he seemed to have more confidence than may have been warranted in the circumstances. I saw his post-event analysis as more rational than what he appeared to be thinking (at times) during actual events. The book is obviously a mixture of both perspectives. Just my 2 cents...

White Limbo is also another good one.

Added to my ever growing reading list (probably should have read that one first)

[the_camera_poser]

I MUST APOLOGIZE.

I think I left the impression that I felt that the government should control access to the Wild. No no no!

GRIZZLY BEARS should control access to the Wild.

(Yes, I am joking....kind of...)

[Nuts]

Yes

And furthermore... Grizzly bears should stand at boom gates and confiscate mobile phones, epirbs, overcompensatory(is that a word?) first aid kits, overloaded packs and Volley's. Then, job done, Grizzlies could lounge around in the back of visitor centres surfing the net and doing not much....

Nuts (the eating variety)

[corvus]

No Grizzly is getting my medicinal liquids

[the_camera_poser]

No Grizzly is getting my medicinal liquids

(In his stellar Yogi Bear voice)
HEY BOO BOO- I'm not the AVERAGE BEAR. I'm gonna go get me some of that yummy SCOTCH BOO BOO, and if the Ranger doesn't like it, well then #%^$ the Ranger!

[johnw]

read Dead Lucky by Lincoln Hall and then see how easy a guided mountaineering expedition is. It's not the weight of carrying chairs or heavy packs that makes it dangerous and difficult. It's getting into The Thin Air!!!

I listened to an interview with Lincoln Hall on a Sydney radio station yesterday. Apparently the story is now also on a DVD titled "Miracle On Everest".

[johnw]

Ino The Wild is definitely worth watching- beautifully filmed with an awesome soundtrack by Eddie Vedder.

I finally got around to recording and watching Into The Wild. It's quite a long movie. Took me two goes to finish watching it, which I did last weekend. I totally agree with your comments about the filming and soundtrack. Sadly he was a very disturbed individual, what a tragic ending. I'm still wondering how the "magic bus" got there and by whom, who lived in it before he found it, and what happened to them.

[sml_12]

I enjoyed watching Into The Wild, and was surprised - as I expected not to based on the comments of friends who had seen it before me.
I don't remember the soundtrack - but these lines have stuck with me, and I appreciated the exploration they sent me on...

CLXXVIII.

There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore,
There is society where none intrudes,
By the deep Sea, and music in its roar:
I love not Man the less, but Nature more,

(fr. Childe Harold's Pilgrimage - George Gordon, Lord Byron)

"Some people feel like they don’t deserve love. They walk away quietly into empty spaces, trying to close the gaps of the past."

"Happiness only real when shared. "

I found it very thought provoking, and I figure that's a good thing..

[north-north-west]

CLXXVIII.

There is a pleasure in the pathless woods,
There is a rapture on the lonely shore,
There is society where none intrudes,
By the deep Sea, and music in its roar:
I love not Man the less, but Nature more...

.... from these, our interviews, in which I steal
From all I may be, or have been before
To mingle with the universe and feel
That which I cannot express, yet cannot all conceal.

Good old Byron. Can't go wrong with him when it comes to being in the bush.

[sml_12]

Sorry - off topic...
Byron IS good, But Walt Whitman does okay too...

52

The spotted hawk swoops by and accuses me, he complains of my gab
and my loitering.
I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable,
I sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world.
The last scud of day holds back for me,
It flings my likeness after the rest and true as any on the shadow'd wilds,
It coaxes me to the vapor and the dusk.
I depart as air, I shake my white locks at the runaway sun,
I effuse my flesh in eddies, and drift it in lacy jags.
I bequeath myself to the dirt to grow from the grass I love,
If you want me again look for me under your boot-soles.
You will hardly know who I am or what I mean,
But I shall be good health to you nevertheless,
And filter and fibre your blood.
Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged,
Missing me one place search another,
I stop somewhere waiting for you.

(fr. Song of Myself)

[tas-man]

Sorry - off topic...
Byron IS good, But Walt Whitman does okay too...

. . . . and so does Wordsworth, with one of my favourite sections from
Lines Composed a Few Miles Above Tintern Abbey, On revisiting the banks of the Wye during a tour.
July 13, 1798

. . . . These beauteous forms,(ie of nature)
Through a long absence, have not been to me
As is a landscape to a blind man’s eye:
But oft, in lonely rooms, and ’mid the din
Of towns and cities, I have owed to them
In hours of weariness, sensations sweet,
Felt in the blood, and felt along the heart;
And passing even into my purer mind,
With tranquil restoration:--feelings too
Of unremembered pleasure: such, perhaps,
As have no slight or trivial influence
On that best portion of a good man’s life,
His little, nameless, unremembered, acts
Of kindness and of love. Nor less, I trust,
To them I may have owed another gift,
Of aspect more sublime; that blessed mood,
In which the burthen of the mystery,
In which the heavy and the weary weight
Of all this unintelligible world,
Is lightened:--that serene and blessed mood,
In which the affections gently lead us on,--
Until, the breath of this corporeal frame
And even the motion of our human blood
Almost suspended, we are laid asleep
In body, and become a living soul:
While with an eye made quiet by the power
Of harmony, and the deep power of joy,
We see into the life of things.

(That poetry thread is looking a bit closer )

[sml_12]

[north-north-west]

John Shaw Neilson:

Green leaves - A patch of world along a river
The drab and silver draping every limb
The cackling kingfisher with throat a quiver
Eager to sing for us a morning hymn.

In yonder bend the rough red rock hangs over
The black ducks brood - a little fleet at sea
In the far sky a wicked foe doth hover
A plover calls - it is a call for me.

Across the stream slowly and with much shrinking
Softly a soft-eyed wallaby descends
To the blue waters edge. I see him drinking
Sweet is the morning for me and my friends.

[the_camera_poser]

You guys all need to get lives, and I'm a blooming high school English teacher!

[corvus]

Do you mean that at the the end of a growing period you will eventually flower
c